Comments on: Do Orthodox Men Wear Suits 24/7?

By: Modern Hareidi Jew

Modern Hareidi Jew — Thu, 19 May 2011 06:02:14 +0000

I would just like to add that, despite the fact that certain practices of so-called “modern orthodox” Jews may not fit my understanding of the dictionary’s definition of hareidi/orthodox, I nonetheless value the midah of “ahavas Israel” (love of fellow Jews) more than any other, and as Mr. Blanco stated before me, “be they Reform, Conservative or Orthodox I have learned … that ‘A Jew is a Jew, is a Jew.’ We are all one in that sense.”

By: Modern Hareidi Jew

Modern Hareidi Jew — Thu, 19 May 2011 05:51:00 +0000

From a completely objective point of view, the terms “modern” orthodox and “ultra”-orthodox are completely inaccurate. The Hebrew word “hareidi” is defined simply as “orthodox” – not “super/crazy/fanatic/ultra” orthodox. In addition, there is absolutely nothing modern about [G-d forbid] dressing/acting like a Gentile, or studying their philosophies and literature (i.e. “Torah u-madda”), as it has been done by Jewish people for thousands of years. [N.B.: I believe that math and science are in fact not Gentile studies, but are rather objective ways of understanding the physical world, and, with the proper mindset, can greatly aid in understanding our holy Torah and the good L-rd up above and down below.] I am personally a hareidi Jew, and I believe that the term “modern orthodox” applies perfectly to me – I am orthodox according to the definition of the word, and I possess a cell-phone and a laptop and a navigation system in my car .

By: Manuel Blanco, Son of Liebowitz

Manuel Blanco, Son of Liebowitz — Fri, 01 Apr 2011 01:35:53 +0000

Dear Allison,
First let me say that I enjoy reading “Jew in the City” very much. Each one of your emails brings another learning experience to my life as a Jew and as a person. I am 55 years old and since I am born of a Jew have been Jewish all my life. I originally come from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which seems to me one of the few places that have Jew-Ricans. I have since met others. I am also member of the Masonic fraternity. I live in Moreno Valley, CA which is pretty far away from any Orthodox Jews to be sure or so I thought. One day I am cleaning my driveway and a van pulls up,inside which appeared to be a Chasidic person driving and a lady as his passenger. It was a hot summer day and I was in shorts with no shirt. I quickly ran into the house and told my wife who is not Jewish but yet a much better Jew then I am “Ruth, I know you think I’m nuts but remember the Chasidum from the Southside? I believe there is an Orthodoox Jew outside the gate?” I rushed to put on a shirt, long pants and open the gate. All are always welcome in our home but to see an Orthodox Jew in my driveway in what many consider the desert was quite a shock although even the thought that I could be right was an honor. It was as you mentioned to Raj was an Chabad Rabbi named Rabbi Shmuel Fuss and his wonderful wife Tzippy. To say the least he changed my life, my heart, my soul and my love for G-d and being Jewish. G-d through this Rabbi in the desert teaching Judaism gave me a feeling that I never had before. I have been ill as of late but recently during a family crisis of my younger Brother passing away he made himself available to help us through the loss of a loved one. Our Masonic family also were a blessing through it all. Rabbi Fuss has since become a dear friend and of course our Rabbi but even more than that, he has become part of our family. When I lived in Williamsburg although I am Jewish the Chassidum really didn’t speak to us much. I never really was a practicing Jew in any sense. I am learning though and enjoy it. You are so right to say that there are many varieties of Jews within Judaism. Allison, I know that I have gotten off topic a few times here but your answer brought back a special time in my life when an Orthodox Jew pulled in the driveway and changed my life. While I have heard other Jews speak somewhat badly of Chabad I can tell you that I have never heard a Chabad Rabbi speak ill of any of the types of Jews or any faith for that matter. Be they Reform, Conservative or Orthodox I have learned from the Rabbi that “A Jew is a Jew, is a Jew.” We are all one in that sense. Thank you again for your newsletter. It like Chabad brings happiness to anyone it touches. Sincerely & Respectfully, Manny Blanco

By: Igor

Igor — Sat, 11 Dec 2010 12:39:11 +0000

Thanks

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:50:40 +0000

Terrific post. I like how you gave descriptions that are generally accurate while making it clear that there is much more complexity if one wishes to look more closely. You provide clarity with sensitivity. Thank you.

By: Gershon

Gershon — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:02:32 +0000

I know I’m a bit late to the comments but felt I had to write in thanks for your efforts on this topic. First, kudos for walking through a minefield of labels and generalizations. You have great ahavas yisrael and it shows in your non-judgemental efforts to explain our mishugas.
Second, and the main reason I needed to comment, is that your effort here was helpful to me on a personal level. I am a recent Baal Teshuva that needs some perspective on my own, new, life.
I have an advanced degree and interact with the secular world in my profession. I would not feel comfortable modifying my outward appearance to appear more observant when my observance isn’t part of my secular day job. It’s as if I wear a secular uniform as part of my parnassah. Perhaps my attitude will change as I continue to learn. I feel I’m in the secular world to take actions that elevate this world. If I can do that more easily by wearing my uniform, then perhaps that is what was intended.
I am moving from BT to MO and the change, growth really, is exhilirating. Thank you for sharing some perspectives and labels so that I can gain some clarity and classification to where I’m located on this journey.

By: Michelle

Michelle — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:03:18 +0000

Thanks for your breakdown on the spectrum of Orthodoxy, it also answered some questions I had. Shalom!

By: Allison

Allison — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:38:33 +0000

Thanks for your comment, Simone. I appreciate you adding this extra information, but I hope readers understand that there was only so much detail I felt I could go into as the post was already getting quite long. In terms of there being professionals in the Lubavitch world who keep the professions they had before they became observant, I tried making note of that when I said: there are usually less professionals in those circles, although professionals do exist. Since you bring up Lubavitch ba’alei teshuva who keep their old professions, it should be noted that the same thing ususally happens in the Yeshivish world. In addition, something else I didn’t get into about the Yeshivish world is that there is a sub-division within that community of guys that learn in yeshiva during the day go to college at night in order to make a livelihood. This concept is known as “Torah eem Derech Eretz” – learning Torah and also getting a secular education in order to have a livelihood.

Even though ba’alei teshuvah usually keep their professions once they become observant, I was trying to highlight the fact that secular education is generally not valued in the Chareidi world the way it generally is in the Modern Orthodox world. That means that many of the Chareidi ba’alei teshuva who went to college themselves will not want their own children to do the same. Again, of course there are exceptions, but I was just trying to illustrate some of the defining points between the various groups.

In terms of Lubavitch mixing with the world, I specifically made that point when I said: they’re more involved with the larger world [than other Chasidim]. While Lubavitch do mix more with the secular world than other groups in the ultra-Orthdox world, they still (generally) retain a distinct way of dressing and in general are not into secular education, as much as the Modern Orthodox camp which has a philosophy of “Torah U’Madah,” meaning that science, literature, arts, should not just be studied in order to get a profession, but that they have an inherent value in themselves as they can enhance one’s understanding of Torah.

In terms of the word ultra-Orthodox being a disparaging word, “Jew” can be used disparagingly, but I’ve reclaimed it here on this site. I’ve also seen Chareidi used in very disparaging ways in non-Orthodox Jewish publications. I put the term in quotes when I first used it because for better or for worse, it’s a term that’s used and it’s a term that’s understood by people universally to describe the groups that I was describing.

I agree with you that there is a spectrum, but within that spectrum, people often draw lines around themselves, give themselves labels and have distinct philosophies. At the end of the post I made sure to mention that Even with my in-depth explanation, this was still all a simplification because people are complicated and it would be impossible to list every detail and every exception to every rule.

By: Simone Shapiro

Simone Shapiro — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:02:14 +0000

I’d like to respectfully disagree with a few of the statements you made about Lubavitch. 1) “Where they work.” Since many of the Lubavitch community came into it at a later age, there are, in fact, many Lubavitcher’s who are doctors, lawyers, in finance or work with computers, as well as some who are house painters, small business owners,musicians, scientists, etc. 2)”The group that decided to go out and mix with the rest of the world, but still remain observantly Jewish were called Modern Orthodox.” Lubavitch certainly is a group that goes out and mixes with the rest of the world. 3) Finally, I dislike the term “ultra Orthodox.” I consider that a term of disparagement, similar to saying somebody is a fanatic. As I see it, once certain basic statements are accepted, a person (or group) is Orthodox, otherwise they are not. Within Orthodox there is a spectrum. That’s it.

By: Gail Scott

Gail Scott — Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:54:20 +0000

Thank you, Allison. My son is Baal Tsuvah for over 2 years and is now
RW (I guess). This explains things very clearly as I can’t understand why he can’t just be MO (to make it easier on me!).

I have also been amazed at where an Orthodox Jew lives can also tell you which degree of Orthodoxy he is following; there are Teaneck Jews & Passaic Jews & of course, Lakewood Jews.