Comments on: Why Don’t Women Read From the Torah in Orthodox Synagogues?

By: Allison

Allison — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:04:36 +0000

Thanks for your question, Nelle. There’s no law that says that a women can’t get a secular eduation or have a profession. It was more a cultural thing for Orthodox women (and really any women) to not do those things in the past. Many Orthodox women go to college these days and even more work outside the home. Also, there’s no law against women learning Torah. There’s something about women learning Talmud – it’s not a law – more of a discussion whether a father should teach it to his daughters or not. Different Orthodox communities have different opinions about the issue, but there are many Orthodox women learning Talmud today as well.

By: Nelle Fastman Pingree

Nelle Fastman Pingree — Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:58:34 +0000

Allison,
I am intrigued by this discussion and have a question. I do understand the many thoughts about women leyning Torah. And while I am ambivalent about it at the moment, I have a question regarding studying Torah, which is different than reading it in a public place. there was a time when tradition would have had women unable to study Torah or for any profession. Yet, you have been to college and many traditional Jewish woman have professions and education. How was this allowed to happen within the Orthodox context?

By: Joy A-Kubati

Joy A-Kubati — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:48:24 +0000

Hello,
I am a Muslim looking to understand others beliefs. I think that your answer was really amazing. With the point of needing to experience it to understand it, well that is a very good point.

By: Philip Morrison

Philip Morrison — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:25:12 +0000

Correct me if a am wrong,I have been brought up to believe that in the orthodox Jewish way, women were not allowed to be called up due to the possibility that they may be unclean,(menstruation), I mean you cannot go and ask if she is having a period cycle in fact, the reason that orthodox Jewish couples sleep in separate beds is that the premise of being unclean during the period cycle is accepted.This in no way demeans a woman, it is to dignify the Torah.

By: Timtza

Timtza — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 01:18:19 +0000

Re: women’s tefillah groups.
I participated in one along the way. There were several things about it that I liked: women encouraging each other to master new skills (leyning), the singing at lunch, watching little girls mature into thoughtful teens (the dor l’dor phenomenon).
Far and away the BEST part, though, were the divrei Torah that women prepared.
I tried and tried to get paper copies to gather into a book – But women are so busy they don’t save such things, and so modest they don’t celebrate their own wisdom as men or academics might.
If all the halachically questionable aspects of a women’s tefillah group were stripped away, we’d have a quite wonderful thing: women explaining the parasha ha-shevuah in terms unique to the frustrations and delights of women’s lives and capacities. Beautiful!

By: Natasha

Natasha — Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:44:57 +0000

Hi Allison. I feel that your response was appropriate, unlike some of the critics to this blog might think. The world as we know has very little knowledge about Judaism partly because of Jewish preservation and partly because of Christian theology. Ask the average South African about Jews and they would either not know the word or will have a racist opinion about what a Jew is. This to me has always been a fundamental problem. So I say kol hakavod to you and to anyone who is prepared to enlighten the world about about Judaism and the Jewish world. we must right the wrong of oppressive regimes that sought to victimize and stigmatize the Jews for their own gain.

By: Allison

Allison — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:39:20 +0000

I completely agree with you, Lydia. We’re on the same page! Doing mitzvos by rote, with no feeling or inspiration is not the way things should be. However, that does not mean that having nice feelings, without the mitzvos to back the nice feelings up, is the answer. IMO, there needs to be both.

By: Lydia

Lydia — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:26:14 +0000

Alison says “Now people have made the “but they get a nice feeling from it” argument to me.” People need to have those nice feelings about their religion in order for them to feel connected to Judaism which encourages them to do more mitzvas. If people have nice feelings about their religion then their children pick up on it and the parents are role models for their children.

By: Allison

Allison — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:28:08 +0000

Hi Rodney, you’re correct that women reading Torah for other women is technically allowed as the modesty, time bound mitzvah issues, and kavod hatzibbur don’t apply. There are still some concerns though, in my opinon, and in the opinion of most Orthodox rabbis today.

In traditional Judaism, the basic goal of life is to achieve closeness to the Almighty (if I had to sum the basic goal of life up in a few words!) The vehicle for achieving that closeness (according to tradtional Jewish thought) is the practice of mitzvos and halacha. The problem with women reading Torah for each other in a group, is that no real mitzvah is happening in the process. When men get together, they form a minyan, so they are able to say blessings before they read the Torah. When women get together – it’s not because there bad in some way, God forbid – but no matter how many women get together, they do not create a minyan. Therefore no blessings are said, therefore no technical mitzvah is done.

Now people have made the “but they get a nice feeling from it” argument to me. And nice feelings are certainly nice. But according to Jewish thought, nice feelings (alone) do not create closeness to God – all they do is create nice feelings. An actual mitzvah accompanied by a nice feeling is the highest level, but there’s still an instrinsic value to performing a mitzvah even if the nice feeling is not there. I’ll give you an example in a less heated scenario than the gender based one we’re presently discussing.

There’s a mitzvah to eat in a Sukkah during the holiday of Sukkot. Men are obligated to, women are allowed to, but most do for many of the Sukkot meals because it’s a nice thing to do. A Sukkah is only considered kosher if the roof (the schach) is laid out a certain way with the leaves/branches that are there (they can’t be too dense or too sparse). Therefore, it’s possible for certain parts of the Sukkah to be kosher and other parts not (if the shach is not laid out evenly throughout). Now on to our example – a person might have a nice feeling sitting in Sukkah with family and friends, eating a festive meal, singing holiday song, etc. etc. but if s/he is not sitting under the right part of the schach – no actual mitzvah is being done. So what women’s Torah reading groups, in a sense are, is a group of women sitting in a Sukkah that they know has a schach that’s not kosher. They can be into the holiday spirit of it all, which can “feel” good, but if the schach they’re sitting under isn’t set up correctly, no actual mitzvah has taken place.

Now just an aside – I would never stop women from creating prayer groups in there own time and space – it’s not my business – everyone is free to live her life as she sees fit . But if we’re in a discussion about the pluses and minuses of such a practice, then this is my take. I certainly appreciate the desire that women have to want to connect. I think it’s beautiful. I just believe that we have to see how the system of connection operates and work within that.

By: Allison

Allison — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 14:50:06 +0000

Thanks for your comment, Lydia. Synagogue life certainly goes beyond just the service itself. In addition, for most Orthodox Jews, the home is really the center for Jewish life as Shabbos, holidays, kosher, blessings, and everyday education takes place there. That being said, I hear your point. I get that if women were involved in the service the way men are, there would be an added way for them to connect. My feeling though is that just because women aren’t involved the same way that men are doesn’t mean they can’t find other ways to be involved in synagogue/Jewish communal life. There are women’s Rosh Chodesh programs, women’s tehillim groups, women’s voluteering projects, etc. etc. I think it’s up to each individual woman to find a way to feel involved, because I think with enough effort each one can. (In addition, only a handful of men in each synagogue are involved in the Torah reading, prayer leadership part of the service anyway.)